Curse

Tenebrae · Oct 08, 2009, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

I find it sad that I have to spell this out.

Rangers are not designed to do heavy damage. You are wanting a skill buffed to give Rangers a role which they are not supposed to occupy. This skill buff will have no positive effect on the class and its intended role in a party.

I find sad that i have to explain to you the post you just already quoted.

I dont care what is Ranger role , the buff to the pve part of that skill is just to balance it within the rest of bow attacks. Buffing it will not make them all of a sudden damage dealers nor SIGNIFICANTLY better at that task .

To match the "power" definition it should have or 35+ bonus damage at marks 15 or some "powerful" effect like Keen arrow ; being unblockable , give more bonus ( like keen arrow but with diff conditions ) if a condition is met or bla bla bla . Hope this time its clear

.

gameshoes3003 · Oct 08, 2009, 10:10 PM // 22:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Akaraxle

Flare's been buffed before tbh. Twice, even.

Fair enough, so some more damage was added.
But did the casting time on it change?
Did BOTH casting time and damage change?
No.

And I hope you people actually read Tenebrae's posts, he totally shuts down this whole "power creep" scare you guys are all hypothesizing all over five more damage and with still better alternatives.

Xenomortis · Oct 08, 2009, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chrisworld

It's a basic damage attack for rangers, it's no different than Flare for Ele's, Power Attack for warriors...etc, no one has been wanting Flare or Power Attack buffed have they?

There's a difference.
Compare Flare to Fireball, both have advantages over the other:
Flare costs less, activates faster and recharges instantly.
Fireball does some half decent damage.

Now compare Power Shot to Sundering/Penetrating Attack. Power Shot has no advantages over those two. Penetrating does more extra damage for the same attack time and energy cost, but has a shorter recharge and has a 10% armour penetration clause.

With rangers as they are, I would prefer Power Shot be buffed to come closer to Penetrating rather than Penetrating be nerfed.
As it is, the skill is completely redundant for PvE. It's not something I lose any sleep over though.

Shadowed Ritualist · Oct 08, 2009, 10:58 PM // 22:58

Buff it in pve, where it's worse than penetrating in every way possible.

Lishy · Oct 09, 2009, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

I find it sad that I have to spell this out.

Rangers are not designed to do heavy damage. You are wanting a skill buffed to give Rangers a role which they are not supposed to occupy. This skill buff will have no positive effect on the class and its intended role in a party.

Then again, lolpve.

Call me ignorant if you must, but for a role intended on the heavy support you claim, I'm not seeing much. Explain how having extra damage will completely break it because it's so overpowered in its concept.
I love big damage. And I DO play characters more oriented towards big damage, such as the Warrior. However, even with a stinkin' +35 bow attack, I wouldn't dare think a ranger will ever be on par in damage. The closest thing you have is combined bow attacks with pet damage, but even that isn't too good, but furthermore, is two mouths to feed for the team.
I DO however, think they can support. But DShot won't win you the team.
And we're at a point in things where BHA just isn't worth wasting the elite slot when you can have a paragon or warrior, even other professions, outdo the ranger in the daze aspect.
I'll put it bluntly:
Where the hell is the support? Ranger, in its current state, are basically just comprised of not-too-beneficial self-buffs, sub-par attack skills, and very minor support skills which do things like interrupts or nature rituals(Which aren't good outside farms)

Prove me wrong instead of stressing how they're support. Maybe I'm the one wrong here. But I think that since rangers are fairly weak in their role in pve, that they need whatever damage boost they can get.

And the argument against Power Shot is absolutely retarded. It's not a matter of high damage in pve. It's a matter of it being completely underpowered in all aspects.

Perfected Shadow · Oct 09, 2009, 01:27 AM // 01:27

Change it to be similar to power attack. +30ish dmg, 3 recharge, 5 base energy. Then I'd bet we'd see more pew pew and less qew qew.

Chocobo1 · Oct 09, 2009, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

Call me ignorant if you must, but for a role intended on the heavy support you claim, I'm not seeing much. Explain how having extra damage will completely break it because it's so overpowered in its concept.
I love big damage. And I DO play characters more oriented towards big damage, such as the Warrior. However, even with a stinkin' +35 bow attack, I wouldn't dare think a ranger will ever be on par in damage. The closest thing you have is combined bow attacks with pet damage, but even that isn't too good, but furthermore, is two mouths to feed for the team.
I DO however, think they can support. But DShot won't win you the team.
And we're at a point in things where BHA just isn't worth wasting the elite slot when you can have a paragon or warrior, even other professions, outdo the ranger in the daze aspect.
I'll put it bluntly:
Where the hell is the support? Ranger, in its current state, are basically just comprised of not-too-beneficial self-buffs, sub-par attack skills, and very minor support skills which do things like interrupts or nature rituals(Which aren't good outside farms)

Prove me wrong instead of stressing how they're support. Maybe I'm the one wrong here. But I think that since rangers are fairly weak in their role in pve, that they need whatever damage boost they can get.

And the argument against Power Shot is absolutely retarded. It's not a matter of high damage in pve. It's a matter of it being completely underpowered in all aspects.

Dshot wins games.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

I find sad that i have to explain to you the post you just already quoted.

I dont care what is Ranger role , the buff to the pve part of that skill is just to balance it within the rest of bow attacks. Buffing it will not make them all of a sudden damage dealers nor SIGNIFICANTLY better at that task .

To match the "power" definition it should have or 35+ bonus damage at marks 15 or some "powerful" effect like Keen arrow ; being unblockable , give more bonus ( like keen arrow but with diff conditions ) if a condition is met or bla bla bla . Hope this time its clear

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaigoda

Sins were never meant to be invincitanks, monks were never meant to tank through 55/600, all the melees are doing way (way) more damage than originally intended, Ele's were never meant to nearly surpass monks in healing/prot.. I could keep going on for a long time. Fact is, times have changed and the original design for each of the characters has all but been thrown out the window.

Ranger is one of the few classes that has stayed in its original role, and it's easy to see that they are very underpowered compared to other classes. PvE really just no longer has a place set for rangers, because the name of the game in 90% of areas is big damage with big healing. Giving them some damage options could actually give them a chance to be accepted back into general PvE.

It's about the broad aspect of it. How does Power Shot improve the function of Rangers. It improves the damage abilities of Rangers, which is not a role they are intended to fill. Even if it is very minor, why start a snowball effect? As already pointed out, we have stupidity already with Sins being able to Tank and Eles being able to heal, roles that are not intended. Why wreck another class? It's not about Power Shot itself, its just the buff is pointless and all it will do is start people wanting other skills to be buffed just like it to promote damage dealing rangers. Just because you don't care what the role of a Ranger is supposed to be doesn't mean you can just ignore it. I'm sorry if your ranger isn't able to clear out UW in 10 minutes, if you don't like the way a ranger plays then don't play one.

Then again, lolpve.

Axel Zinfandel · Oct 09, 2009, 05:05 AM // 05:05

The trouble with Rangers are that a majority of the roles they can fill are ones that are great in PvE, but notso in PvE. Interuption in PvE is necessary in a few situations, and degen is a joke. Rangers DO have a few really good DPS builds like with Glass Arrows. And using Asuran scan, pretty much any class with a physical weapon can do good DPS

Even so, no one here is talking about buffing rangers to be a DPS viable class. We just want the useless skill that is Power Attack to be something worth using compared to Power Shot/ Sundering Shot.

and it IS pretty useless (PvE)

Chocobo1 · Oct 09, 2009, 06:07 AM // 06:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

The trouble with Rangers are that a majority of the roles they can fill are ones that are great in PvE, but notso in PvE. Interuption in PvE is necessary in a few situations, and degen is a joke. Rangers DO have a few really good DPS builds like with Glass Arrows. And using Asuran scan, pretty much any class with a physical weapon can do good DPS

Even so, no one here is talking about buffing rangers to be a DPS viable class. We just want the useless skill that is Power Attack to be something worth using compared to Power Shot/ Sundering Shot.

and it IS pretty useless (PvE)

Ya, I agree with this. But there is flaws in PvE with many classes concerning how well they play.

headlesshobbs · Oct 09, 2009, 06:39 AM // 06:39

Power attack really needs to be what hunter's shot was before the nerf. -bleeding of course.

I Angra I · Oct 09, 2009, 06:46 AM // 06:46

as long as its PvE only i don't really care

power shot is already being used on spike rangers in pvp though, and buffing it will only further promote overpowered spike builds

Tenebrae · Oct 09, 2009, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Holy christ , do you misread on purpose ? how many ppl have to tell you the same till you understand ?. It doesnt matter if you care or not , if i want it or not , someone suggested something and ...... he is right . Period .

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Dshot wins games.

Not in PvE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

It's about the broad aspect of it. How does Power Shot improve the function of Rangers. It improves the damage abilities of Rangers, which is not a role they are intended to fill. Even if it is very minor, why start a snowball effect?

It doesnt improve nothing , just balances the name of the skill compared to the other ones , again read :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Even so, no one here is talking about buffing rangers to be a DPS viable class. We just want the useless skill that is Power Attack to be something worth using compared to Power Shot/ Sundering Shot.

Snowball effect ? paranoia isnt a reason , just a mental disorder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

As already pointed out, we have stupidity already with Sins being able to Tank and Eles being able to heal, roles that are not intended. Why wreck another class? It's not about Power Shot itself, its just the buff is pointless and all it will do is start people wanting other skills to be buffed just like it to promote damage dealing rangers.

Wreck another class ? you are overexaggerating things , that "omg it starts with one skill and all of a sudden 8 rangers will clear DOA in 20min" has absolutely no sense at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Just because you don't care what the role of a Ranger is supposed to be doesn't mean you can just ignore it. I'm sorry if your ranger isn't able to clear out UW in 10 minutes, if you don't like the way a ranger plays then don't play one.

Now who the hell said nothing about speed clears or dislike the way ranger plays ? the voices in your head ?.

Its just plain simple , you can say : - "Hey, there are so many skills that are broken or unbalanced between others of the same kind , i dont find this one to matter enough to be rebalanced again . Dont think its worth the time so /not signed." and we all would understand your opinion but that "snowball conspiracy" stuff ..... uf its just weird imo

Now try to say something against this :

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

.
Now compare Power Shot to Sundering/Penetrating Attack. Power Shot has no advantages over those two. Penetrating does more extra damage for the same attack time and energy cost, but has a shorter recharge and has a 10% armour penetration clause.
.

Heres a tip : Even if it gets to +40 , it wont be on my bar , but what is fair , is fair.

Axel Zinfandel · Oct 09, 2009, 08:54 AM // 08:54

Oh god I can bold things too can I be cool now

you people are way overreacting, Not to mention off topic, and saying that power attack is not an under par skill in PvE is a lolworthy concept

*popcorn*

Chocobo1 · Oct 09, 2009, 09:01 AM // 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

Holy christ , do you misread on purpose ? how many ppl have to tell you the same till you understand ?. It doesnt matter if you care or not , if i want it or not , someone suggested something and ...... he is right . Period .

Not in PvE

It doesnt improve nothing , just balances the name of the skill compared to the other ones , again read :

Snowball effect ? paranoia isnt a reason , just a mental disorder.

Wreck another class ? you are overexaggerating things , that "omg it starts with one skill and all of a sudden 8 rangers will clear DOA in 20min" has absolutely no sense at all.

Now who the hell said nothing about speed clears or dislike the way ranger plays ? the voices in your head ?.

Its just plain simple , you can say : - "Hey, there are so many skills that are broken or unbalanced between others of the same kind , i dont find this one to matter enough to be rebalanced again . Dont think its worth the time so /not signed." and we all would understand your opinion but that "snowball conspiracy" stuff ..... uf its just weird imo

Now try to say something against this :

Heres a tip : Even if it gets to +40 , it wont be on my bar , but what is fair , is fair.

You are still totally missing it. I don't know how to make this clearer. Buffing Power Shot will have no positive impact on the class and how it is designed to be played. I don't know how to make this clearer, you are fixated on this one skill when you can't really just think about it like that.

Lets say Power Shot is the only skill buffed, since its obviously my huge paranoia that has gone on undiagnosed that leads me to believe that people never get enough, and keep wanting more. So Power Shot is buffed to some decent damage, so what? What effect does this have on the class? You even said you wouldn't use it if it went to an insane +40, so obviously this isn't the way to go with the skill.

Then you said it balances the skill compared to other ones, so apparently you are allowed to think of this skill in relation to others but I'm not. Brilliant theory there. So now Rangers have some damage options, which goes against the whole idea of rangers disrupting combat and spreading conditions. This may not be the ideal situation for PvE play, but it is how the class is designed. Don't blame me for bad design. I'm not sure if you actually understand the concept of design though.

There has to be a decent reason for a buff, and PowerCreep isn't really a great reason to buff skills. It's more of a reason to nerf others to tone them down.

Oh and uh, the whole calling me insane thing is pretty stupid. I'm thinking about the bigger picture here, stupid buffs to skills without any real reason just leads to degenerate gameplay. Obviously this one buff won't be allowing Rangers to Clear DoA in 20 minutes as you put, but try and understand that buffing damage skills needlessly for a class not designed for it is never going to have a good effect on the class.

Once again, lolPvE.

headlesshobbs · Oct 09, 2009, 09:25 AM // 09:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by I Angra I

as long as its PvE only i don't really care

power shot is already being used on spike rangers in pvp though, and buffing it will only further promote overpowered spike builds

Actually I am waiting for the pvp buff.

Akaraxle · Oct 09, 2009, 09:35 AM // 09:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameshoes3003

Fair enough, so some more damage was added.
But did the casting time on it change?
Did BOTH casting time and damage change?
No.

And I hope you people actually read Tenebrae's posts, he totally shuts down this whole "power creep" scare you guys are all hypothesizing all over five more damage and with still better alternatives.

Of course Flare has nothing to do with power creep. Because Mind Blast is retardedly better.

Tenebrae · Oct 09, 2009, 10:28 AM // 10:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

You are still totally missing it. I don't know how to make this clearer. Buffing Power Shot will have no positive impact on the class and how it is designed to be played.

So then why you care ? if you know its fair and wont have any possitive effect , why still on denial ?.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

What effect does this have on the class? You even said you wouldn't use it if it went to an insane +40, so obviously this isn't the way to go with the skill.

You didnt mention another way to go with the skill , i did. You just /notsigned for powercreep paranoia stuff , wich is not a reason , am i clear ?.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Then you said it balances the skill compared to other ones, so apparently you are allowed to think of this skill in relation to others but I'm not. Brilliant theory there.

You didnt compare to the other ones because if you did , you would just agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

There has to be a decent reason for a buff, and PowerCreep isn't really a great reason to buff skills. It's more of a reason to nerf others to tone them down.

Power creep is not the OP reason, is fair balance between skills. Power Creep is your paran ... soz you have problems with that word , your "reason" to deny it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

Oh and uh, the whole calling me insane thing is pretty stupid. I'm thinking about the bigger picture here, stupid buffs to skills without any real reason just leads to degenerate gameplay.

I wasnt the one saying things like :

"My Warrior can't heal, and PvE requires lots of healing. Make it so Warriors can be amazing healers as well."

"You are wanting a skill buffed to give Rangers a role which they are not supposed to occupy." ( wich is false btw )

"I'm sorry if your ranger isn't able to clear out UW in 10 minutes, if you don't like the way a ranger plays then don't play one." ( answering to something no one thinks or ever said )

Now think about this , if you dont BUFF a skill because its fair and its unbalanced between skills of the same type and wont be overpowered nor boost significantly that class ( because thats the truth ) to do something its not intented to do ( sigh at this , lol ) ..... when are you going to buff any skill ?. Maybe you just want Anet to Nerf and thats it but allow ppl to differ

.

Chocobo1 · Oct 09, 2009, 11:20 AM // 11:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

So then why you care ? if you know its fair and wont have any possitive effect , why still on denial ?.

You just awnsered yourself. You want a buff for the sake of buffing skills? Good idea.

Quote:

You didnt mention another way to go with the skill , i did. You just /notsigned for powercreep paranoia stuff , wich is not a reason , am i clear ?.

This skill does not promote good Ranger play. It should not be touched. I do not want this skill changed, so I did not mention another way to go with this skill. There are many skills that do not suit the class, and some can be ignored while others need nerfs or changes (Shadowform if you want an example).

Quote:

You didnt compare to the other ones because if you did , you would just agree.

Tried hard to understand what you were saying here but I have no idea. I didn't compare it to something because I would agree with my own comparison? Ok?

Quote:

Power creep is not the OP reason, is fair balance between skills. Power Creep is your paran ... soz you have problems with that word , your "reason" to deny it.

"Power creep is not the OP Reason". Have no idea what you mean by that.
I also have no idea what you are trying to say here, something about Power Creep being my own paranoia. Because power creep never happened eh?

Quote:

I wasnt the one saying things like :

"My Warrior can't heal, and PvE requires lots of healing. Make it so Warriors can be amazing healers as well."

Obvious sarcasm, I can't believe you took that seriously.

Quote:

"You are wanting a skill buffed to give Rangers a role which they are not supposed to occupy." ( wich is false btw )

No it is not. Rangers were not designed to be huge damage dealers, don't bother trying to argue against this.

Quote:

"I'm sorry if your ranger isn't able to clear out UW in 10 minutes, if you don't like the way a ranger plays then don't play one." ( answering to something no one thinks or ever said )

You obviously think this, because you are wanting to change the role of a ranger to a more damage dealing class. If you want to promote damaging Rangers, you are wanting to change the role of the class.

Quote:

Now think about this , if you dont BUFF a skill because its fair and its unbalanced between skills of the same type and wont be overpowered nor boost significantly that class ( because thats the truth ) to do something its not intented to do ( sigh at this , lol ) ..... when are you going to buff any skill ?. Maybe you just want Anet to Nerf and thats it but allow ppl to differ

.

I can tell English is not your native language. I think you are trying to say why buff a skill to make it on par of the same skills which fufill the same roles.

Skills are buffed when they actually have a good concept behind them, and yet its effects have become oudated due to other skills being superior. The most common cause of this is power creep, skills which have been released in new campaigns or recently buffed which totally overshadow other skills.

Very few skills actually need this treatment, and it is far better to nerf the overpowered skills than to buff other ones to be great a long side it. Buffs lead to problems. Nerfs on the other hand not only bring the selected skill down to reasonable standards, but also allow other skills that have fallen out of use to be used. It is an effective way to promote game balance.

There are a few things you might wanna rewrite, but I think I adressed everything you said.

Tenebrae · Oct 09, 2009, 11:44 AM // 11:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

You just awnsered yourself. You want a buff for the sake of buffing skills? Good idea.

No, i was just using your words.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

You obviously think this, because you are wanting to change the role of a ranger to a more damage dealing class. If you want to promote damaging Rangers, you are wanting to change the role of the class.

And thats why i said i wouldnt use it even if it goes +40. You are dead wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

....and it is far better to nerf the overpowered skills than to buff other ones to be great a long side it. Buffs lead to problems. Nerfs on the other hand not only bring the selected skill down to reasonable standards, but also allow other skills that have fallen out of use to be used. It is an effective way to promote game balance.

So basically you are a nerfer and dont believe in buffs , thats it , got my point. Bye.

PS:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chocobo1

There are a few things you might wanna rewrite, but I think I adressed everything you said.

And yet you understood what i said . If anytime you dont , feel free to pm for a reply in spanish

.

Chocobo1 · Oct 09, 2009, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenebrae

No, i was just using your words.

No you weren't, you clearly stated an opinion of your own. That you wanted the skill buffed regardless of the lack of a positive effect. Please stick to your guns.

Quote:

And thats why i said i wouldnt use it even if it goes +40. You are dead wrong.

That doesn't make me wrong, it makes you a troll. You are arguing on behalf of a buff for a skill that even if it got an outrageous buff you wouldn't use? You pretty much have no reason to argue this then?

Quote:

So basically you are a nerfer and dont believe in buffs , thats it , got my point. Bye.

I consider it quite rude to reply in that manner, especially since I rebutted every single one of your points fully rather than focusing on a few words. Basically I am a man with experience. Let's pull out the good old updates that buffed recent skills shall we?

http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Game_...:December_2008

The famous december update. Remember all the great buffs in that one? Palm Strike Sins, Bsurge, EPrism, PnH, RoJ, Lingering Curse, Weaken Knees, Primal Rage.

If that isn't proof enough that buffs hurt more than they help then you obviously lack an understand of the game. Buffs need to be done in small doses, and used sparingly. I never once said I dont believe in buffs, nor does my stance make me a "nerfer". I just understand that there needs to be a balance of nerfs and buffs to balance the game, and pointless buffs don't help.

Quote:

PS:

And yet you understood what i said . If anytime you dont , feel free to pm for a reply in spanish

.

I know, It was a miracle that I have the amazing abilitiy to understand others from different backgrounds. You might wanna give the whole understanding others a shot.